JM: All season long… we’ve been sharing stories from people who did things their own way… other people’s opinions be damned.
MG: Jackie Miller took that approach to life.
Scott Miller (SM): You know, my mom, she was conviction in human form.
JM: That’s her son, Scott. He and his mom did two StoryCorps interviews together… 15 years apart.
SM: My name’s Scott Miller.
Jackie Miller (JMi): I’m Jackie Miller, and I’m with my son, Scott.
MG: They covered A LOT of ground in those conversations… pretty much Jackie’s entire life… from beginning to end.
SM: When she made a decision about something, that was her decision. And that extended to how she would die.
JM: When you live life on your own terms… the decisions you make can sometimes be incredibly hard on the people you’re closest to.
JMi: The only thing that was a problem is that I’m saying, How do I tell Scott this?
JM: I’m Jasmyn Morris.
MG: And I’m Michael Garofalo. This is the StoryCorps podcast from NPR.
JM: Scott and Jackie had always shared everything with each other. That was their way. Like, Scott knew the whole time growing up that he had been adopted.
MG: So when they came in for their first interview in 2008… Scott wasn’t expecting any surprises…
SM: When did you and dad decide to adopt?
JMi: We always knew from the time we first married and we must have talked about it even before that. You know, we are very methodical people.
SM: [laughs]
JMi: Now this is something you don’t know. When I was seventeen, I got pregnant. And the light of my life is my father but he gave me 24 hours to leave town. And I did have a son. I gave this baby up for adoption and said at that time that I will adopt a child when I’m able to take care of a child.
SM: Wow. I just wasn’t ready for that.
JMi: I’m sure.
SM: Thank you for telling me.
JMi: So many times I would think, gosh, is this the time to tell him? But I’m 73 now and it just seems like such a big secret.
SM: Well, I guess, um, speaking of secrets. Um, when I came out, I remember kind of saying to you, ‘Hey Mom, I want to talk to you about something’ and I stumbled just telling you I was gay. And the first thing out of your mouth was, ‘I love you and I’m your mother.’
JMi: And by that time I knew. There wasn’t even any question in my mind. Just as you were this wonderful little kid with curiosity and couldn’t speak well you–[laughs]
SM: [laughs]
JMi: –You know, that was as much a part of you as any of the other things. It’s just…You! And I couldn’t be happier if you’re happy with your life. Plus, you help me with my hair sometimes.
SM: [laughs]
JMi: [laughs]
SM: Yeah, it comes with its perks.
JMi: Yeah, there’s no downside for me.
SM: It’s kind of funny, I think of myself to be an emotional person but where you’re concerned, I try not to be very emotional. I worry that you’ll never know just how deeply I love you and how scary it is for me sometimes to imagine life without you.
JMi: That’s something I can’t make better for you. And I don’t doubt it’ll be tough but you’ll be okay. The thing that’s been wonderful, sweetheart, is that we haven’t missed much, you know? We spend a lot of time together and you’ll have those memories.
JM: 15 years after this recording… we got an email from Scott.
SM: Hi there. I am writing to inquire about coming back to interview my mom. My mom is now 88 and nearing the end. And as endings have a way of doing, it’s been making me think a lot about beginnings, so I wondered whether returning to talk about our first interview, and her life since, might be a fitting bookend?
SM: I cannot believe 15 years have passed.
JMi: I know. I don’t have any more revelations to unleash on you.
SM: [Laughs]
JMi: [laughs] I’m 87.
SM: 88.
JMi: It’s 88. Yeah, time flies.
SM: [Laughs]
JMi: I’m aware of how my voice has changed. And now I have an old person’s voice. It cracks.
SM: Yeah. So, I’m curious, what are some of the things you wish you’d understood about getting older sooner?
JMi: Well, you know, I thought of old people as a different species, and I still don’t think of myself as old.
SM: I know, it’s part of—
JMi: And I know.
SM: —your magic [Laughs].
JMi: I mean, when I find myself — oh gosh — flirting, I realize a guy would have to be nuts to flirt back, but that doesn’t keep me from doing it.
The last time, the guy was giving me my flu shot. He was gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous. And so I’m making this flirty conversation. And then I realized I couldn’t get my jacket on, I needed help to get my clothing back on, I said, Oh, well, that certainly ruined the mood.
SM: Mhmhmm. (Laughs) So what’s life like now?
JMi: Lots of doctors appointments, just tons of them and, uh, my world is really getting smaller. One day sort of unfolds into the other. I have time to stop and think about things. I can sit out on the terrace for a couple of hours doing absolutely nothing. Life is good sweetheart.
SM: Good.
JMi: But I have difficulty now articulating exactly what it is I want to say. Words don’t come that easily to me now, and it’s regrettable, but heck, you know, it just is.
SM: You sound great to me. It sounds like the words are coming to you. I mean, it happens to me all the time. [Laughs].
JMi: [Laughs] It’s really scary. The other day, a little simple thing: I couldn’t remember my cell phone number. I had to really think and think and think. And I said, Oh, I recognize this is part of getting, not older, but old, you know?
SM: You know in our first interview I had said, uh, it scares me imagining life without you, and I can tell you that it doesn’t so much scare me anymore. I’m not scared.
But it makes me uneasy imagining a world without you in it. You know, when your parents are both gone, you’re kind of nobody’s son. So when I think about what I’m going to be holding onto when you’re gone…
JMi: Mm hmm.
SM: It feels so simple, but our conversations and your voice.
JMi: I don’t know if this is the time to speak about this, our February plans?
SM: Sure.
JMi: You sure?
SM: Sure. Talk about whatever’s coming to mind.
JMi: Okay. For several years, as I saw myself getting more and more frail and aging, I couldn’t see how it was going to get better. And I’ve always had this awful fear of homes for assisted-living and I’m saying to myself, you’re not getting me in one of these places. So then I started thinking, now you need a plan. You’ve got to plan for your end.
The only thing that was a problem is that I’m saying, How do I tell Scott this? My biggest fear was how you were going to respond.
MG: After the break – we’ll hear about Jackie’s plan… and Scott’s response. Stay with us…
<BREAK>
MG: Welcome back. Before we go further – a warning – the second half of this episode deals with what Scott and Jackie refer to as voluntary assisted death.
This is a complicated issue… and there are a lot of strong feelings on all sides.
For this episode… we’re going to stick with Scott and Jackie’s perspective. It’s their story… and that’s what we always try to do at StoryCorps.
But – we do have resources that can provide more context… information and support on our website, StoryCorps dot Org.
Now back to the story…
JM: Knowing she was 88 and nearing the end of her life… Jackie wanted to choose the manner and the timing of her death.
MG: But because she didn’t have a terminal illness, Jackie couldn’t do this in the US. So she found a clinic in Switzerland… where it is legal…and started the process…
JMi: I came across this organization. It’s just a business-like way of bringing your life to an end. They call it a voluntary assisted death. I said, this is it. And it was just like the weight of the world had been lifted off my shoulders.
SM: I remember when you told me, the really weird thing was I wasn’t surprised.
JMi: Really? Okay.
SM: I– I mean, obviously it was surprising, but on some level I’ve always wondered, is she hatching a plan?
JMi: I don’t know how realistic this is, but I’m taking comfort in knowing that we have a plan. You may not be happy with it, but…
SM: I’m happy that it gives you comfort.
JMi: Okay. It does.
SM: But I will miss having a friend who is unconditionally in love with you.
JMi: Mmhmm.
SM: There’s no other relationship that’s the same as that. You can have great friends or loved ones, but it’s not the same.
SM: When my mom came out to tell me that this was her plan, she was so afraid of how I was going to react. It was like, will you still love me the way you love me?
JM: What you’re hearing is a third interview… but this time, Scott came to StoryCorps alone.
SM: A friend of mine later said, ‘In its way, it was your mom coming out to you.’ And I’d never thought about that. I mean, obviously the context is different, but the elements are right.
Friends would talk about how courageous and brave we both were. And I’d always find it so strange when they would think of me as being courageous or brave because I’m like, it’s my mom. What else would I do?
But I remember it hitting me… Oh, what’s been brave has been me not letting mom see me crack under pressure. Having to always let her know, ‘I got you. I got you.’ Her only concern was me. Which I guess is part of why I had to let her know that I’ll be okay, even though I didn’t really know.
MG: Jackie worked with a case worker from the clinic for more than a year before they settled on a date – February 13, 2024.
SM: As the date approached, suddenly I was overtaken by a new anxiety. It was as if mom and I had become one, and I was fearful of anything getting in the way. This was the most important thing to her–it was the everything–and so it became everything for me.
You know, there’s the expression, we contain multitudes. I have never been so aware of what that means. Our capacity to have so many different emotions and feelings, pushing through a single space at the same time.
And so, two days in advance of the final day, we flew out to Basel, Switzerland.
And the morning of, I went down to the lobby and my mom was already there. Her makeup is flawless. She’s got this sweater on and she looked amazing. She did not look like a person who was going to say goodbye.
We’re sitting at the table, having breakfast, and my mom says to me, ‘Okay, so let’s just talk a little bit about later. So I’m gonna look to you for a sign to let me know when it’s okay for me to go.’ I was a little stunned. And then I said to her, ‘Mom, you tell me what you want, and that’s what we’re gonna do.’
SM: Later, at the clinic, once everything is organized, the last thing she said to me was ‘I love you.’ And, uh, the image I have right now is just that she’s propped up on this bed, but it was so quiet. And, um, a woman that was part of the clinic, she says to me, ‘You know, hearing is the last sense that goes.’ And I just say to mom, ‘I love you more,’ because that was always what we did— to be the last to say it. And then the team left the room. Mom and I sat for a while. I was still holding her hand, and I push her hair back a little bit just to neaten it. (Sighs)
And at some point I just let out this – it was almost like a wolf howl – just this rush, letting go of everything that I’ve been holding on and making a brave face for.
And then I walk outside to get some air. And I said, ‘Okay, what now?’ Because all I could think of was I just want to leave this place.
You know, I used to think grief was something that you could work your way through, but it turns out grief works its way through you. I know that in time, it’s like this internal clay. It’ll get reformed and reshaped. I’m not afraid. I just feel a little dim right now and that’s hard. And I know that my mom, her memory, will live in all kinds of interesting ways through me. It’s both a sadness and a comfort.
But you know, we had a lot of conversations, and one of the last ones, she said to me, ‘If I could live forever and just stay in one way, I would choose that. I love life,’ and she did. I can honestly say that there was nothing left unsaid, and that is something I’m so deeply grateful for.
JM: That’s Scott Miller remembering his mother, Jackie.
SM: So what’s something that you want me to know when you’re not here to tell me?
JMi: I was thinking about that. One of the happiest days of my life was when I first saw you. You were just so perfect.
I just would like to emphasize in all of the years to come just how revered and how special and how you gave my life, give my life, such meaning and I can take such pride in you. That has been a sustaining influence for me, and you’ve brought such light and enjoyment, and I want you to hear that.
MG: If you or someone you know is in crisis… dial 988 from your phone to reach the Suicide and Crisis lifeline. It’s free and confidential.
What’s the hardest thing you’ve ever had to do for someone you loved? That’s our question this week. Tell us your story by leaving a voicemail at 702-706-TALK.
JM: The number again is 702-706-TALK. Or you can email us… at podcast AT storycorps DOT org.
MG: Next week… on our final episode of the season… the story of a 12-year-old paperboy from Long Island… who ran away to live at the 1964 World’s Fair.
Tommy Tucci: Did the idea of him having gone to the World’s Fair…
Lilian Breen Tucc (LBT): Ever pass my mind? No.
Bridget Porter: So what’d you think happened?
LBT: I didn’t know. I mean, he was the kind of a kid that would just
take off.
JM: This episode was produced by Jo Corona. Max Jungreis is our producer. Jud Esty-Kendall is our Senior Producer.
MG: Our Technical Director is Jarrett Floyd… and Amy Drozdowska is our Executive Producer. Our fact checker is Katie Scott… and art for this season was created by Liz McCarty.
JM: Special thanks to Annie Russell, Vanara Taing and StoryCorps facilitators Julia Kirschenbaum and Mike Rauch.
MG: I’m Michael Garofalo.
JM: And I’m Jasmyn Morris.
Thanks for listening…
