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It’s the StoryCorps podcast from NPR. I’m Jasmyn Morris.
The StoryCorps archive is a treasure trove of interviews between loved ones or friends who know each other well. But in the spirit of sharing challenging conversations. Today you’ll hear something a little different.
This week, we’ll be listening in on conversations between strangers—and these strangers don’t necessarily agree on things politically.
Participant #1: I thought it was important to have a conversation with somebody who thinks differently than I do.
Participant #2: Is there one thing that you respect about the way that I see the world?
Participant #3: No. [laughs]
Participant #2: [laughs] Fair enough.
Participant #4: We can have different political beliefs but we can still discuss issues in a reasonable manner and go away with some understanding of why the other person you’re talking to believes the way he does.
Participant #5: We were not that far apart in our overall beliefs.
Participant #6: We tend to agree more than we disagree.
Participant #7: It was important for me to meet somebody who really didn’t have horns and a tail. [laughs]
Participant #8: Do not be so quick to form opinions; seek to understand.
Participant #9: It’s the best way to love and love is the only thing that’s going to help.
Participant #10: That’s the way I see it.
All of the voices you just heard were recorded as part of StoryCorps’ One Small Step Initiative. It’s a little bit of an experiment but it’s an effort to bring together Americans with different political views not to argue about issues but to get to know one another as human beings.
Here’s Stacey Todd, Director of the One Small Step Initiative.
Stacey Todd: The preparation for a One Small Step interview is a little bit more involved than a traditional StoryCorps interview, because we’re bringing strangers together. So yeah, there is a questionnaire and it’s just a brief survey about your background, and a little bit about your beliefs. And then we use that to match you up with somebody who’s different than you, and who has different beliefs than you.
Here’s One Small Step participants Cassandra Adams and David Wilson who each answered those survey questions. This is from early on in their conversation…
Cassandra Adams (CA): Lemme ask you this, when you read my bio…
David Wilson (DW): Mm-hmm.
CA: What did you think? And please be as honest as you feel comfortable because nothing would bother me.
DW: Um, so the first part my mind kicked into stereotype—
CA: Mm-hmm.
DW: She’s probably dyed in the wool democrat, end of story.
CA: [laughs]
DW: Second part was intriguing because you said something along the lines of an open mind and I thought, well this would be interesting…
CA: When I read your bio I just thought you were a white man.
DW: [laughs]
CA: I thought I was gonna come in here and just be like…
DW: [laughs] I don’t even know what it was! I don’t remember what it was!
CA: And that’s what’s so interesting to me! Is that I’m just like…
DW: Stereotype!
CA: That’s exactly right! So I have to admit it. And I appreciate you receiving that and allowing me to admit my stereotype, because when you walked in the door and I stood up and introduce myself I was like ‘oops, oops, oops.’
These conversations take a lot of courage. They’re sometimes hard, sometimes awkward — but for the most part… they inspire hope…because again… we’re not asking people to talk about politics…
Some of the questions participants might ask each other are… How did your childhood shape your view of the world today? Or When you think about the future, what are you most scared of?
And a lot of care is taken to make sure participants have a meaningful experience… like the list of ground rules that are placed on the table before the interview starts. Here’s Stacey again.
ST: Some examples of the ground rules are to share the time equally and not to interrupt each other, not to use derogatory language. And I think one of the biggest ones is not to make any assumptions. And it’s important that the participants understand that they’re not there to try to persuade their partner to their side.
We’re going to listen in to one of these conversations now…
Nicole Watkins: Hi, okay my name is Nicole Watkins. I’m 34 years old, and today is July 30th, 2019 and I am in Birmingham, Alabama.
Austin Suellentrop: And I am Austin Suellentrop, also 34 years old.
NW: Gotcha.
AS: Wonderful.
NW: You wanna pick the first question?
AS: Sure. Let’s see how this goes.
NW: Yeah we’ll see how this goes.
Nicole and Austin were one of the first pairs of strangers to try this with us… They came to StoryCorps to talk about healthcare… something that’s very personal for both of them.
AS: Do you feel like because you do have a medical condition that you’ve dealt with your entire life that when people talk to you, that they talk differently to you as a result?
NW: Absolutely. I’m a below the knee amputee on my right side. Born with spina bifida. I just spent last week at a conference in D.C. and I had to be in a wheelchair for part of it.
AS: Yeah.
NW: And folks I had talked to on the second day of the conference treated me like a 2-year-old in the wheelchair even though they had met me the day before.
AS: Yeah.
NW: And I was the same human.
AS: Right.
AS: An example of how I think my personal belief structure differs from the perception of my belief structure, right? My wife and I, for years, led youth group in our church. And so we…every year, we would participate in the March for Life.
And because I would be outward with this idea that I’d like to see a world where abortion is no longer an option, that because of that, that one stance, I’m now like somehow this radical evangelical avid Trump supporter.
NW: I see.
AS: And it’s like, the thing that drives my belief there is also the same thing that drives my belief that we should take care of the abandoned refugee at the border, that we should take care of the poor and sick in our own neighborhoods. But like, that’s not the public persona of what somebody who goes to D.C. to march for that is.
NW: That’s actually exactly why I wanted to do this and I will fully admit in this conversation to having had that bias before.
AS: Yeah.
NW: Right. And it’s also worth mentioning, full disclosure–please don’t run out of the room–I work for Planned Parenthood.
AS: Oh no—I can’t talk to you anymore. We have a policy against that. [laughs] See… that’s what gets my blood going a little bit. None of us are simple enough to be just thrown in a bucket. Like, we’re all too too darn complicated for that.
NW: I meet a lot of people in my work come to me and they’re crying because they feel ashamed and they feel sad and they’ve been ostracized. And that’s just heartbreaking to me. That’s not a fair way to treat someone that you don’t agree with.
AS: I think we can all do a better job of realizing the nuance in people.
NW: “Nuance” I want on a bumper sticker. I think that in the end result of having these conversations needs to be that because people are so many things. Talking about earlier too, like, being disabled is a part of my identity. But it’s a part. Right? And it’s sort of you know going to the March for Life is a part of your identity but it’s not the whole thing.
AS: Right.
NW: Like, there is more to you than that.
AS: Totally.
NW: You are a father you are a husband you are all these things and I think if we can remember that when we have those conversations with each other I think we’ll get somewhere.
That’s Nicole Watkins and Austin Suellentrop in Birmingham, Alabama earlier this year.
Next… we’ll hear from two women who might be different in a lot of ways… but also found connection during their StoryCorps interview… Stay with us.
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Welcome back.
Another important part of the One Small Step process is not just focusing on people’s differences but also finding similarities before the people who are participating even sit down together. Again StoryCorps One Small Step Director, Stacey Todd…
ST: Ideally we find two people who have something in common It makes the first five or 10 minutes a lot more comfortable if they can bond over a shared passion, or a shared experience. One of the things that we’ve learned is to avoid pairing people strictly based on identity. That’s not what we’re looking for.
Basically, no one is paired based on differences in race, gender or sexuality — we wouldn’t want someone to have to defend their humanity.
And so next… we’ll listen in on a conversation between Jessica Vittorio and Katie Hays… strangers who were paired by StoryCorps because they shared Christian beliefs but were opposite politically.
KH: I’m curious about your experience of voting differently from your parents.
JV: (Laughs)
KH: I have that same experience in the opposite direction, and I just wonder how that is for y’all.
JV: I always joke that I tried to raise them right and I just don’t know what happened. Unfortunately, I think the position we take towards it now, generally, is just not to talk about it. Because I don’t know if we can really talk about it without getting upset with each other.
Do yall have success in talking about it?
KH: No, we really don’t. My relationship with my parents took a serious hit in the last election. Our sources of information are so different.
JV: Yeah.
KH: So that made it hard all along, but the last presidential election is when it just came undone. I’m sad, my job is bringing people in reconciliation in Jesus name, and I haven’t managed to make that a reality in my own family of origin.
JV: Part of it is, they’ll be like this group of people is ignorant or uneducated, that’s really where it breaks down, and where inevitably, it gets a little too emotional. It’s not about the issue, it’s about like, who are saying I am as a person, and that’s what I think is frustrating about it. Because most of the issues are federal issues, right, so they are not things that have a daily impact on our any of our lives in any real tangible way.
KH: You’re channelling my Dad. Because I think my Dad would say that to me, “This is not about you, it’s not personal, it doesn’t affect your day to day.” And I would say, yes, it does everyday, because I’m raising my kids in a world where climate change has already ravaged the planet to the point that I don’t know if we can get it back. I don’t know how anybody’s politics doesn’t feel personal.
JV: What you said is interesting ‘cause, I think my parents and boyfriend get really emotional, especially when you start talking about climate change and things like that. I do think that there’s an inherent difference of approach, because a lot of times when I think about policy, I think about it from an economics perspective, so it doesn’t really feel personal, but in your mind, you’re dealing with humans, and that’s the way that you’re approaching it, and my mind, we’re dealing with numbers, so it causes us to have very different reactions to things.
KH: And maybe that has something to do with what you called your vocational calling; you to be an attorney, me to be a pastor. I wish my conversations with my Dad could go as well as this one and I am hopeful that lots and lots of people that I vote differently from are thinking about it as hard as you are.
JV: I do think it’s easier to bridge the gap with a stranger-slash-new friend than it is with someone that you have a really intense emotional connection with already. So I’m thankful that I can hopefully take some of this stuff and bring it to those conversations slowly. I’m not going to jump into them.
KH: Yeah, I’m probably not going to call my Dad on the way home. (Laughs)
JV: (Laughs)
That’s Jessica Vittorio and Katie Hays in Dallas, Texas.
So… what happens when the recording equipment is turned off and everyone goes home? Again, Stacey Todd…
ST: Very often, they keep in touch. People exchange email addresses after the appointment is over and feel like they’ve made a friend in somebody that they never would have expected to. But this isn’t going to solve everybody’s problems, and that’s why we’re calling it One Small Step because that is exactly what it is. It’s a tiny step in the right direction, and that’s all we can hope for.
Over the past year we’ve learned a ton about these difficult conversations—most of all, we’ve learned that even if they’re hard, they matter. Here’s StoryCorps founder Dave Isay speaking about the project…
Dave Isay: The dream is to convince the country that it’s our patriotic duty to see the humanity in people we disagree with. It’s gonna be the biggest, hardest, most important thing we’ve ever tried to do, but given the stakes in the country we’re gonna give it everything we’ve got, because the democracy cannot survive in the swamp of mutual contempt. We think of this a little bit as a light seeping into a pitch dark room helping our eyes adjust so we can begin to see one another again…
If you want to be a part of this new initiative, please sign up at takeonesmallstep.org. Or pick up the app and record a friend or neighbor whose views are different from yours. Just remember those ground rules.
Also if you live in the Birmingham, Alabama area come to the Alys Stevens Center on February 7th for a One Small Step event hosted by WBHM, NPR and StoryCorps. You can get more info at wbhm.org.
This episode was produced by Michelle Little, Sylvie Lubow and Katie Brook. Edited by me, Jasmyn Morris. Our technical director is Jarrett Floyd. Our production assistant is Eleanor Vassili. Natsumi Ajisaka is our fact-checker. And special thanks to Dan Collison, facilitator Mysia Cole, WBHM and WGVU.
Join us on next week’s episode with more difficult conversations… as two people share their differing views on guns…
Lorna Washington (LW): Wherever I go where there’s a gathering of people now, I am so conscious there might be a gunman in the midst, and wherever my weapon is permitted, I take it.
Willie Sparrow: I don’t want any guns in church. I don’t want any guns in schools.
LW: Why?
This is the StoryCorps podcast from NPR. Thanks for listening.